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Secondary (Trading for a Safety) Help Ideas. Recap of the Saints-Giants Slaughter. Giants Roundtable

Before I get to the roundtable I’m going to do a little bit about players who the Giants could use in the secondary.

I was going to do an extensive analysis of some Safeties out there to help the Giants becuase I think people want to see that, however, I believe the trading deadline is today, Tuesday so I don’t have time to put together a huge list.

Here though are 12 players from 7 different teams the Giants could consider trading for to plug into safety.

Try to keep this in mind when thinking about making a trade. The Giants love Kenny Phillips, they like Michael Johnson if you’re trading for a safety the Giants are probably looking for a one year, veteran player who they don’t need after this season. The Giants don’t want to give up a lot of draft picks, and in order to get a GOOD Safety, they have to give up something. If they get a good young player they must then decide what to do with Michael Johnson when the season is over.

You can’t give up Sinorice Moss and get back a player better than C.C. Brown.

Also you have to focus on bad teams because good teams need their good safeties to compete for playoff spots.

Here you are though some Safeties who could help the Giants. I’ll list my favorites.

If you’re not interested in the roundtable just read this up until the roundtable recap and leave your thoughts in the comment section.

#1 Oshiomogho Atogwe STL-The best player in the league no one knows.

Atogwe this season has 40 tackles already, a sack and a forced fumble. The prior two years (meaning 2007 and 2008) he has 13 interceptions, and 6 forced fumbles.

If you’re looking for a playmaker at Safety THIS is your guy. He also plays for St. Louis, who isn’t competing anytime soon, which means you might be able to convince the Rams to trade, their best player not named Steven Jackson.

What will it cost? I don’t think the Rams would seek a 1st round pick, but you have to give up something. A 3rd and a fifth maybe. Atogwe is nice though, I’d do it.

#2 Ed Reed. This one is outside the box and there is obviously one problem with this scenario…the Ravens won’t trade him. But maybe the Ravens should. I thought before the season the Ravens were pretenders this year anyway.  So this is just one of those call up the Ravens and see if you can pry him away.

Imagine paring Reed with Kenny Phillips the next 5-7 years (I’m drooling).

What will it cost? A LOT!  Ed Reed is a dynamic game-changer. I think the Giants would have to give up a 1st round pick and a player like Mario Mannigham and maybe a later round pick (5th?) 

A lot of times you can steal guys like Braylon Edwards, or Anquan Boldin or other players of high caliber because they are unhappy in their situations, but Reed is a leader and doesn’t complain about much.

If I’m Jerry Reese I make the call, I say hey look your defense sucks anyway we’ll give you next year’s first round pick and Mario Manningham, because we know Joe Flacco needs weapons now and in the future you give us Ed Reed.

Won’t happen.

#2A Michael Huff Oakland Raiders. The former #1 pick has off the chart measurables (dont’ all of Oakland’s first round picks?). Huff has three interceptions this year and can make some big plays.  He could be great with the Giants superior coaching. Huff does make some mistakes.

But Huff is becoming expendable by the Oakland Raider with the recent drafting of Marko Mitchell and with Tyvonn Branch playing there too. Huff has only started two games this season, but is an immediate upgrade over C.C. Brown.

What would it cost?

Not too much.  How hard could it be to trick Al Davis? I mean the Patriots got a 1st rounder for an aging disgruntled Richard Seymour.

#3 Donte Whitner or George Wilson Bills. Donte Whitner is not the play maker the Bills thought he would be. BUT no one is for the Bills. They dont’ develop talent at a 1/10 of the way the Giants do. Donte Whitner is oft-injured with the Bills, but he is super athletic. I think with the right coaching he could be good. The Bills are also awful. This is  a nice match. Whitner has 3 Career INTs, but I think with the Giants pass rushing abilities and superior coaching he could be a great player to pair with Kenny Phillips moving forward.

George Wilson is better in coverage than in run support. He won’t cost you much, but he’s not a huge upgrade over C.C. Brown.

What would it cost? For Whitner maybe you could steal him for a 3rd round pick.
Wilson probably even later than that 5th or so.

#4 Tenard Jackson Tampa Bay Out of Syracuse he’s young and talented. Not the most disciplined player, but makes plays.  He also wouldn’t cost an arm and a leg, but I’m not sure the Buccaneers would be jumping to get rid of him. Remember he’s a young player growing into their system.

What would it cost? Less than Whitner a fourth round pick?

#5 Chris Hope or Michael Griffin Tennessee

Chris Hope is more suitable because he’s an older player (29) and a player with a lot of experience with two winning organizations in the Steelers and the Titans. 

Michael Griffin is the flashier more exciting player.  Griffin had 7 INT last year and really came into his own. He’s a good pass defender and would be a nice fit with the Giants. Problem is Tennessee has much less motivation to move Griffin than they do Chris Hope.

#6 Brian Russell Jaguars one of the few white Safeties in the league. Russell has a lot of startnig experience in the league with the Seahawks and cuold fill in. A heady player and someone who is also an upgrade in pass coverage over C.C. Brown.

What would it cost?  A late round draft pick. Nothing more.

#7 Gerald Sensabaugh or Ken Hamlin Dallas Cowboys  I dont’ think a trade would happen between the Giants and Cowboys, but maybe. Sensabuagh has some starting experience, but not a huge upgrade over C.C. Brown.

Hamlin is O.K. His strength is pass coverage and knowing his stuff. He was good in Seattle, but has gotten a bit undisciplined under Phillips watch, but this isn’t Phillips watch. Coughlin runs a tight ship and everyone is always accountable. I think a change of scenery could benefit Hamlin.

What would it cost? I”m not sure. Hamlin isn’t worth much more than 5th round pick, maybe a 4th. But I dont’ know if the Cowboys would charge more.

Lastly: LaRon Landry. The Redskins are struggling, but again I don’t know if they’d be willing to help out the Giants. Landry is undiscplined but his talent is undeniable. Maybe in the right system with his head screwed on right he could become the player the Redskins thought they drafted.

Cost a 2nd round pick. Might be worth it.

Well that’s all my thoughts.

Leave a comment or keep reading the game recap.

Giants Roundtable.

Well that didn’t go over well, but it happens. It doesn’t usually happen to the Giants,but it happens.

But here at giantsgab we pride ourselves on giving you all the information so we’re back at it despite being under circumnstances we don’t love.

Once again I have with me Andrew, Mark, and Fuchs.

One Statement: Intial Reaction to the Game.

You call that a game? They got their collective a$$ whooped.
 
You can’t win them all, but they played awful.  The Saints completely dominated the game from the opening kick. 
Awful, dreadful, painful to watch
My very first intial reaction to the game was hit Drew Brees. I don’t care if you have to rush all 11 guys on one play knock his teeth out. So next time he plays us he might be a little jittery.  And then the next thought is a string of expletives.
 
But now looking back I dont’ think the game was as bad as people think, what I mean is despite how poorly the defense played the Giants missed on some opportunities that could have swung the game around.  But still it wasn’t pretty.
 
Let’s hand out the game ball.
 
Game Ball Goes to…?
 Domenik Hixon, thank god he is back, he looked impressive.
Saints Offensive line. Giants got absolutely no pressure on Brees. When you give any quarterback, but especially Brees, that much time, you’re going to get hurt.
Drew Brees. Inspiration to get Aaron Ross healthy and another reason to trade Sinorice Moss and get some better play-makers in pass coverage. I like CC Brown’s hard hitting style but the guy needs to get better defending passes, pronto.
Well, on the New York Giants I’m going to give the game ball to Domenik Hixon!! Yay!! Finally where he belongs, being one of the most explosive return man in the league. Sean Payton gets the game ball for the Saints, he out coaches Tom Coughlin and staff plain and simple.

All right let’s move on with the griping.

Most at fault for the Giants loss this week?
 GIants defensive line. No pressure.
Bill Sheridan and the Giants Defense… there wasn’t one bright spot all day.  No pass rush, no physical presence in pass coverage, no spark. They stopped the run early but bit by bit gave up over 100 yards on the ground over 60 minutes and couldn’t get the ball back.

 Poor defensive game plan and not willing to switch it up.  They didn’t even get close to Brees and he made them pay dearly.

Obviously the defense, but again the coaching staff got out coaches as well.  The referees didnt’ help either (I hate doing that), but I thought the Giants got hosed on a few penalties that helped kill what little momentum the Giants had on Sunday.

One thing we saw on Sunday that was uncharacteristic of the Giants, other than getting whooped, was Eli Manning getting on Bradshaw hard.

I asked the table.

Did you like Eli yelling at Bradshaw or no?
 I do like it because the Giants were already going to lose that game — the one area that Coughlin had stressed all preseason is blocking and picking up the blitz efforts from the backs. Bradshaw has improved and the first 5 games he’s done a decent job but he missed picking up the blitz more than once Sunday and Eli felt he had to get rid of it hastily. The yelling and shoving from the team leader is sure to cement the importance of that aspect going forward.

Yeah, sure. Good to see Eli being vocal. He was known,at least early in his career, as a quiet guy. Good to see him get angry.

Yes, Eli is becoming more of a leader every day.  

I don’t love it as much as the panel here does.  It’s so uncharacteristic for Eli it looked like he was frazzled and fenting frustration.  It’s not a terrible thing, but that wasn’t “easy E” like we’re use to seeing. I dont’ like when a QB shows up his teammates, and although I dont’ think Eli did there perse I wouldn’t want to see that too often, but I understand where Eli was coming from there.

 I asked this question last week so I’ll be fair and ask it again this week….who would you rather have Drew Brees or Eli Manning?
 
 
 

 

I still would say Manning.  As stated last week he has the pedigree and the ring.  Give Manning all day and he will eat you up too.

Last week, I kind of waffled. I’ll say this: Until Brees has a ring on his finger, I’ll go with Eli. Brees is more talented, but I (fairly or unfairly) judge QBs by how well they can win. Eli has a ring, Brees doesn’t. Maybe it’s unfair, but that’s how i see it.

Last game? Drew Brees.  He went two series in a row – 15 passing plays in a row without an incomplete pass. He looked tremendous.

Good to see the guys still rallying behind our (“our” as in us as an extension of the team, the 12th man if you will).
Eli doesn’t have the advantage of throwing in domes every week in a pass happy offense and the advantage of being a leader of a team like the “aints” or Chargers, who have little pressure to win every year.
 

 

New York is a Beast. They get on your FAST!  And for the Giants, Eli is the right man for the job. Maybe other teams systems Brees would fit better (although I think in a different system Eli would look amazing), but for the Giants definitely give me Eli.

One of the “positives” (use that term loosely) was the play of Brandon Jacobs. I asked Fuchs about that.

 

Hey Brandon Jacobs averaged 4.7 yards per carry. Your thoughts on Jacobs performance this past weekend and what it means moving forward?
 I thought he was better, but honestly, it would be hard not to. I think it is a step in the right direction. He was starting to break off longer runs, and that’s key to his game. Give him another week like this, and I think we’ll start to see some big game from him

We’ve speculated here for awhile now that Jacobs isn’t running the same because the teams they were playing were garbage. Jacobs is a bruiser, to himself and to the other team. I think he’s saving bullets for later in the season to try and play a full season. Hopefully this is the start of a trend and not an aberration.

Better game vs the Saints Bradshaw or Jacobs or who cares?
 Brandon Jacobs had a solid game, he was hitting the hole with a vengence and did you see the catch he had in the endzone in traffic!

I say who cares.  Not enough a sample size in that game to mean anything. Bradshaw looked good on that touchdown run though. I’ve been impressed with him, he’s better than I thought he was.

Something I was delighted with was the play of William Beatty. Those of you who are regular readers know that I Love William Beatty. I thought he should have been the Giants 1st round pick and was elated when they got him at the end of the second round. I asked Andrew about his impressions of Beatty.

How about William Beatty’s play this past weekend?
He did a decent job filling in from what I could tell. You hate to see Kareem go out like that on the wagon but its good to know we have capable backups ready on the line.
 

 

 Beatty will be a good offensive tackle in this league. He could be stronger, bu this footwork is great, his athletcism is great. He has big strong hands and he’s a willing run blocker. I can’t wait to see this guy when he gets his Man Body in the weight room over the summer.
Another thing that really interest me was this:
 

 

Where you suprised to see Danny Ware inactive instead of Gartrell Johnson or do the Giants like Johnson better with Hixon now returning kicks?
I am not sure who they like better, they are basically from the same mold.  Maybe Ware wasn’t fully ready to go or maybe Coughlin likes the dreadlock look better!,
I honestly think they may like Johnson better. I belive that Ware practiced all week, and I think that with Hixon now returning kicks (can’t say thank god enough) that the Giants may be looking at Johnson moving forward here as opposed to Danny Ware. It wouldn’t surpise me to see Ware inactive more going forward. Honestly though, it’s a moot point because Andrew Brown is nice and he’ll be back next year.

How about Hixon and his returns?
Amazing. Simply amazing.  Hard to imagine why he hasn’t been doing that his entire tenure. The only real bright spot all day that gave the Giants any kind of advantage — those short fields early of course were not capitalized on, but Hixon certainly was fantastic.
 

 

 

Agree. Nothing more to say on that.

I asked Fuchs about the homefield advantage for the Saints.

Was it the Saints home-field that was such a problem, do the Giants have a chance if they meet the Saints in the playoffs in New Orleans again?  

Sure, they have a chance, as long as they get pressure on Bress, and frankly, that has nothing to do with being home or away.
I think the home-field had a little something to do with it. It’s a faster track and obviously you can pass better in the dome than in Giants stadium. Anyone watch the Jets game? no balls were being thrown well there, at all. 
Let’s hope we make the playoffs and do well there regardless of who we face.

All right that takes care of the “good” lets move onto the bad stuff.

Worse in coverage vs the Saints C.C. Brown or Kevin Dockery?

CC Brown.  He got burnt repeatedly for huge passes. Kevin Dockery makes my crap list though on Bress’ final touchdown pass. I think he was looking for a penalty that never came… offensive pass interference where his jersey was yanked right off the line to create separation, he never finished the route, and of course a no call benefits New Orleans with the TD and one of many nails in the coffin

 
I’m brainstorming a list of Safeties now the Giants could pursue in trades (don’t thinkt hey will though) I’ll have that out sometime soon.
Along the same lines as the last question I asked Mark:
Worse pass coverage linebacker Chase Blackburn or Antonio Pierce?
I am sorry to say this but Antonio Pierce is a HUGE liability.  He may be the on field general but he has lost a step.  I’ve always felt that the linebackers are the weak spot and it looks to be coming true.  I love Boley but thats it.  I hope the Giants start letting some of the young guys (Goff, Sintim and Kehl) get some reps because Pierce and Clark are just not cutting it.  Blackburn is a solid versatile reserve but I don’t think he is starting material.
Well put. I dont’ think Blackburn is an every down back for sure. Solid reserve. I wonder if Gerris Wilkison with his speed could have been used effectively in the Saints game to cover or do the Giants distrust him that much?
More on Chase Blackburn…since we’re stuck with him for another few weeks.
Thoughts on Chase Blackburn’s performance this past weekend?
 I thought he was a bit exposed this week, especially in coverage. Look, Blackburn is what he is: Great special teamer, will give you every thing he’s got, but not overly athletic. The Giants are really missing Michael Boley, not only in the pass rush, but in coverage.

 

You can’t blame Blackburn. Smart player, hard worker, not overly physically gifted. A player you love to have on your team, but not a player you love to rely on for your team. Let’s see what Arizona does with Mr. Blackburn and Mr. Pierce next week.

What we didn’t get much of a feel for this weekend is how the Giants offense could operate against the Saints, assuming the Giants were playing their style of football and not catch-up.

Andrew agrees with me.

Thoughts on the offense in the game and moving forward?

 

 

 

 

I dont think the offense was on the field enough to really get going, the Saints had several methodical drives down the field and their Defense was able to stay fresh all game – this coming week I see better preparation from the Giants. Overall the pieces are still there and I think Jacobs and Bradshaw need more of a roll than they got last game — I appreciate some of those classic 30 yard passes on 3rd and short but I think the first and second time they didn’t work it got me thinking, man I wish they would have gotten down in the redzone by running instead of taking that shot down the field.  I appreciate the risk, but when you do that 3-4 times and it isn’t working that takes the wind out of everyone’s sails for sure. This next game I want to see the Giants get back to pounding the football and control the clock and the game their way on their turf.

Risks are risks because they are not guranteed to work. IF Manning hits Smith on that play, and if Bradshaw picks up that block for Manning to throw deeper to Nicks, and if Hixon has a bit more seperation and a better throw for Manning this game is a different game. BUT it didn’t happen. Those plays turned into nothing, although they were very, very close and you see what happens. Points is: I can play the if game all day the question is was the play-calling the problem or the excecution?

 

 

You want the team you’re rooting for to be agressive. Trust me. My wife is a Bills fan and we watch all those games too, and they are not aggressive and the games are TORTURE!

I have no problem with the Giants trying those plays, hopefully next time they connect.

Well that wraps up our Roundtable version of recaping the Giants-Saints game.

 

We’ll be here all week giving insight into the big Sunday night matchup this week vs the Cardinals.

 

Leave a comment and let us know what you’re thinking.

 

 

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9 Responses to “Secondary (Trading for a Safety) Help Ideas. Recap of the Saints-Giants Slaughter. Giants Roundtable”

  1. […] more here:  Secondary (Trading for a Safety) Help Ideas. Recap of the Saints-Giants Slaughter. Giants Roundtable By admin | category: Uncategorized | tags: desired, different-teams, dubai-roads, […]

  2. Jason C. says:

    The Giants should indeed trade for a safety, however, you really don’t have to give up that much in draft picks for most players.
    For starters if a team isn’t going anywhere and their safety is nearing the end of their contract, they’ll probably part with him for a solid 4th round pick, since it’s the Giants however and their pick will most likely be a late rounder, you’d probably have to give up a 3rd, but you’d get say a guy like Hope, Whitner, or Huff, plus maybe a 6th in return.
    Of all the players, I agree with you in that Hope would make the most sense, I’d love to see this get done.

  3. Or get Butler back from Saint Louis…. he was pretty darn good down the stretch.

  4. Erik says:

    I think you’re severely undervaluing some of these players. St. Louis franchised Atogwe, and he’s not off the radar of any serious NFL fan. Spags is running the show down there now, and you have to think he’s planning on rebuilding that defense around a couple of key players, and a game-changing safety is enough to build a defense around (see Baltimore).

    And speaking of Baltimore: why on earth would a team coming off a narrow loss in the conference championship let the centerpiece of their defense go? You trade young standouts when you’re in full-on rebuilding mode, which Baltimore is emphatically not.

    Tennessee’s safeties are both overrated. Their Pro Bowl bids last year were because they’re both gamblers, much like Finnegan. Some years, that risk-taking mentality means you force a lot of turnovers; some years, it means you lose games by 59 points. We don’t need guys angling for highlight reels; we need coverage guys whose last names aren’t Brown.

    Huff is an intriguing prospect. If we could get it done for a 3rd or 4th rounder, it would be a coup, it would shore up our secondary, and we’d have phenomenal depth (or a fantastic 3-safety nickel package) next year when we get Phillips back. I’d say no competent GM in the league would let Huff go for that little, but we ARE talking about Al “Trade Randy Moss For A Handful of Magic Beans” Davis, so maybe we should put out some feelers. My only problem with this trade is that we already have a safety with intriguing physical tools, who needs some serious coaching to do anything with them: Aaron Rouse was an absolute monster in college, but hasn’t been able to translate 4.4 speed into coverage ability in the pros. Maybe we let it ride with him for another week, bench Brown, and see how Rouse handles elite competition in the Cardinals.

  5. Júlio César says:

    Atogwe would be great, but i don’t think spags would accept trading him…

  6. Erik-

    I’m not undervaluing any players as far as trade value would go, however, I should have clarified that in the N.F.L. teams trade players they have a willigness to trade or players that don’t fit the direction the team is heading.

    Atogwe is not untouchable, but he’s not being shopped for sure.

    True Hope and Griffing are gamblers, BUT They can make plays. C.C. Brown doesn’t making plays in the passing game.

    I’d rather have players who might take a gamble on a play and let a big play happen over a guy who just lets big plays happen.

    Right now where in a spot where there are no turnovers back there and no coverage that’s the worse of both worlds.

    I completely disagree about Baltimore, I think they are pretenders.

    I’m not a huge Flacco fan, they don’t run exceptionally well (though Ray Rice is starting to look really good) their defense is not very good either, especially at cornerback and they can’t beat good teams.

    Loses to Cinncy, New England and Minnesota
    Sure they beat the Chargers, but the wheels on that bus are coming off fast too.

    Last year they lost almost all of their tough games as well.

    As they failed to beat Indy, New England, Pittsburgh (any of three times), New York, Tennesse when they were good (since being 10-0 last year Tennesse is 3-10 including playoffs), they did beat the receeding Titans.

    They did beat a very lucky Dolphins team, a Fading Dallas team that was already given up and the Eagles before they got hot.

    So even if you count the Titas win, the Eagles win, the Dolphins wins and the Cowboys win and the Chargers win they are what 4-10 against good opponets the past two years?

    Pretenders.

    They are fooling themselves, but not me.

    Ed Reed is 31 years old and the future is Joe Flacco and the offense not Ed Reed and the defense.

    They wont’ move him, but maybe they should.

  7. Russo says:

    NFL.com had a write up on possible players that may be moved and Atogwe was one of the players mentioned.

  8. andrew ilnicki says:

    well its all over, CC Brown is still on the team.

  9. […] Part 1 and Part 2 of our Giants Roundtable […]

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